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Our wipes last week, 5-6 OCT

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Our wipes last week, 5-6 OCT

Post by Slater on Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:09 pm

Last week was a huge disappointment to say the least. I thought I was setting the bar low when I said the goal was to kill Siegecrafter last week. I figured we would start Monday night at Siegecrafter and have it down in less than 20 attempts (the number of attempts it took us to get our second kill) and have enough time to kill Paragons putting us in a perfect position to kill Garrosh quickly this week.

I'm not entirely sure if people understand why we wiped on so many bosses so I'm going to explain it here with lots of pictures from Warcraft Logs. I'm going to go through every boss with pictures of people's death logs, including mine of course.

com/reports/J9XVTgrnBymMKZQN:2z8qe3x4]Night One Logs[/url:2z8qe3x4]
com/reports/8NRKPtFTVXQDhxpf:2z8qe3x4]Night Two Logs[/url:2z8qe3x4]


The fact that we still wipe on the first boss in SoO, given that most of us killed it for the first time in 2013, is very sad.

As usual, the biggest killer was [url=http:
com/spell=143579:2z8qe3x4]Sha Corruption[/url:2z8qe3x4]. This is the stacking debuff you get when you attack Immerseus. Every week I say get 3-4 stacks, stop attacking the boss, kill adds until the debuff drops, then attack boss again. Every week people are unable to count and they go up to well over 4 stacks and die. It's especially important when 2 healing that you pay attention to your stacks.

[attachment=9:2z8qe3x4]Immerseus Wipe 1.PNG[/attachment:2z8qe3x4]

Those 4 deaths were caused by having 6 or more stacks. 6 stacks = 250k dmg ticks for 6 seconds. That's unhealable given the other damage being taken in that phase.

Fallen Protectors

[attachment=8:2z8qe3x4]Fallen Prot deaths.PNG[/attachment:2z8qe3x4]

Deaths here were caused by Cheeko not taunting the [url=http:
com/npc=71476:2z8qe3x4]Embodied Misery[/url:2z8qe3x4] so the add came into the raid and dropped the ground effects on us. Also note in that death log that a [url=http:
com/spell=143958:2z8qe3x4]Corruption Shock[/url:2z8qe3x4] cast got off. That's unacceptable given the number of interrupts we have available.


Nothing to report here. No deaths. It was one of our fastest, if not the fastest, kills we've ever had.

Sha of Pride

[attachment=7:2z8qe3x4]Sha of Pride Deaths.PNG[/attachment:2z8qe3x4]

Two deaths due to Pac Man. Not good when there's videos showing the path to take if you get Pac Man'd.

Glacie's death was a combo of [url=http:
com/spell=144351:2z8qe3x4]Mark of Arrogance[/url:2z8qe3x4] and closing a rift. A few things went wrong here.

[attachment=6:2z8qe3x4]Glacie Sha Death.PNG[/attachment:2z8qe3x4]

Number 1: Glacie had the DoT on him for a long time. That needs to be dispelled ASAP so the healers don't fall behind on it. Number 2: He received almost no heals during this time other than his own defensive CD. Number 3: He must have been standing near open rifts when other people closed them in order to take the damage from 2 rifts in a 10 second time frame. The explosion from closing a rift has an 8 yard range.


Nothing to report here. Smooth kill.

Iron Juggernaut

[attachment=5:2z8qe3x4]Juggz wipe 1.PNG[/attachment:2z8qe3x4]

The wipe here began when Cheeko died. He wasn't actively tanking the boss but was standing in front of Juggernaut so he got the Flame Vents on him more times than he should have. This left the healers scrambling right as phase 2 was about to begin and they were unable to catch up.

[attachment=4:2z8qe3x4]Juggz wipe 2.PNG[/attachment:2z8qe3x4]

Wipe 2 was a bit of a clusterfuck. Angel didn't have a CD up and tried to soak a mine. Surf was standing in [url=http:
com/spell=144218:2z8qe3x4]Borer Drill[/url:2z8qe3x4] for a while and then was blown up by the cannon. Glacie was apparently standing in front of the boss because he had the tank debuff on him as well as standing in the Borer Drill and then got hit by a saw blade to finish him off. Ashe was standing too close to Juggs in Phase 2 and got Cannon'd along with the normal raid wide aoe. At that point the attempt was unable to be saved.

[attachment=3:2z8qe3x4]Demo Cannon dmg taken.PNG[/attachment:2z8qe3x4]

This graph is Demolisher Cannon damage taken over the 3 attempts (2 wipes, 1 kill). These numbers are way too high for a mechanic that is very obvious to see and avoid. It's a giant red circle on the ground. The 2 people with the highest damage taken are also the two people with the easiest escape mechanic ([url=http:

Dark Shamans

[attachment=2:2z8qe3x4]Dark Shamans Survival.PNG[/attachment:2z8qe3x4]

That's a survival graph for Dark Shamans. If the number is 100% congrats, you survived the entire fight. If not, you died. The reason for the 100% on non-kills was because we had attempts where the top group all died and the bosses despawned, leaving the bottom group alive.

Top group deaths are attributed to two things, [url=http:
com/spell=144089:2z8qe3x4]Toxic Mist[/url:2z8qe3x4] and [url=http:
com/spell=144090:2z8qe3x4]Foul Stream[/url:2z8qe3x4]. You can't avoid the mist. The only thing you can do is use a defensive CD near the end of the Mist's duration (as the ticking damage grows over time) and hope that your healer will save you. The Foul Stream though was a bit of an issue. Ideally, only one person gets hit with the stream. The way we handle it is that the person targeted with the stream does not move while everyone else makes sure that they are not in the path of it. A few attempts had multiple people getting hit with it. Couple that with the hard hitting DoT and the tank and it's impossible to keep up with the healing.

[attachment=1:2z8qe3x4]Dark Shamans Wipe 5.PNG[/attachment:2z8qe3x4]

Bottom group deaths look like this almost every time.

Let's go over how [url=http:
com/spell=144330:2z8qe3x4]Iron Prison[/url:2z8qe3x4] works shall we? As you can see from the tool tip, the debuff will one shot you when it expires. However, if you have a defensive CD up and you are at max health you will survive. The CD could literally only absorb 1 HP and you would still survive. If you are doing it right on the bottom group the only two sources of damage you should have in your logs are Iron Prison and [url=http:
com/spell=143973:2z8qe3x4]Falling Ash[/url:2z8qe3x4], both of which are highly predictable and easy to survive.

The way we execute this fight, with one half of the raid going up and one half staying down, means that you will always have an Iron Prison debuff on you. The boss casts it once every 30 seconds on two non-tank players. This means that as soon as your debuff runs out it will be recast on you. Therefore you need to have a defensive CD available once every minute or some other form of survivability (external CD from a healer, permanent damage reduction like this [url=http:
com/spell=109260:2z8qe3x4]Aspect[/url:2z8qe3x4], etc).

With the predictability of the damage on the bottom group there is absolutely no reason that anyone should die to Iron Prison. Not having a disc priest down there to heal makes it very obvious who is paying attention to boss mods, debuff timers, and defensive CDs and who is just tunnelling the boss. I mean Glacie died to Iron Prison on every attempt that didn't end in a boss reset except the kill where he stood too close to the Falling Ash and got one shot by that instead. Other people stood in the [url=http:
com/spell=144029:2z8qe3x4]Toxic Tornado[/url:2z8qe3x4] right before their debuff expired and their defensive CD couldn't save them because they were at less than half HP. Or the Falling Ash lined up very closely with their Iron Prison debuff and didn't time their CD properly to survive both hits.

Deaths to Iron Prison at this point in the expansion are unacceptable.

General Nazgrim

[attachment=0:2z8qe3x4]Nazgrim Deaths.PNG[/attachment:2z8qe3x4]

We one shot this one which was good but it was a sloppy kill. Couple things to point out here.

Angel (even though he can't see this), don't turn your back to the Assassin. It will one shot you.

Ashe, get away from the Bladestorming warrior. Frost nova him, blink away, call out for help, anything to get away from that guy, especially as a cloth wearer.

Surf, you stood in the shockwave with the sniper shooting you. I am disappoint. I know moving with the sniper on you can be a very bad thing but the shockwave is not so wide that you can't side step it.

Sav - The sniper went after you once Surf was dead. That was during the extra adds at sub-10% on Nazgrim and you were solo healing at that point. You had your defensive CD up and shit was going crazy, not really anything to fault you for here, just wanted to point out the death.

Dalek's Bane

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Our Wipes last week part 2

Post by Slater on Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:03 pm

Splitting this into 2 parts because holy wall of text Batman!

com/reports/8NRKPtFTVXQDhxpf:3rugpiyp]Night Two Logs[/url:3rugpiyp]


[attachment=8:3rugpiyp]Malk wipe 1.PNG[/attachment:3rugpiyp]

Same as usual for this fight, people touching orbs and not soaking void zones.

Sav died because she soaked her void zone (with a CD up, good job!) but another void zone was not soaked and blew up. Sav lost her shield due to her void zone and the second one killed her. Not her fault for the first death but the second one she stood too close Malk during Blood Rage and got one shot.

Birdi wasn't at Full HP or full shield and tried to soak a void zone without a defensive CD up. Can't do that.

I was at low HP already when an orb spawned under me and I didn't move in time so it killed me. I should know better but I failed.

[attachment=7:3rugpiyp]Malk wipe 2.PNG[/attachment:3rugpiyp]

On our kill shot Surf was at very low hp and touched an orb which killed him.

[attachment=6:3rugpiyp]Cheeko malk death.PNG[/attachment:3rugpiyp]

Cheeko died trying to soak the Blood Rage. As you can see, he did have Last Stand up and Shield Wall had just faded so it was a combo of not enough incoming heals and only having a max HP CD up.

Spoils of Pandaria

I was actually happy with our progress on this fight because we've never actually killed it using the intended strategy of splitting the raid in two. We have always done it (on 10 man at least) using the zerg strat. That being said, there are some deaths I would like to point out.

[attachment=5:3rugpiyp]Spoils wipe 1.PNG[/attachment:3rugpiyp]

Ashe and Jilliumz were killed by a combo of the large add doing his big AOE and standing to close to the Spark of Life. The pulse from the Sparks is no joke and they need to be avoided, especially while the large add is active.

[attachment=4:3rugpiyp]Spoils wipe 2.PNG[/attachment:3rugpiyp]

Birdi and I died to bombs. I meant to Deterrence the Bombs when they expired but guess what? Boomkins don't get Deterrence from hunters, only resto druids do. So I am a huge idiot and deserved to die. I assume Birdi meant to Deterrence his bombs and just didn't?

[attachment=3:3rugpiyp]Spoils wipe 3.PNG[/attachment:3rugpiyp]

Sav got bombed here. I know she didn't have a hunter on her side so I guess she didn't see the timer on her bombs.

I died to the same thing that Ashe and Jillz did on the first wipe, standing too close to a Spark of Life while the large add was active.

And apparently an Unstable Spark exploded on Wreq's side on this attempt as shown in Jilliumz's death log.


The deaths weren't terrible on this fight. The big things I want to point out here is the double fixates and the bats.

If you are fixated by Thok you obviously have to run away. However, once he is done chasing you, you need to move in close to him so you don't get fixated twice in a row. The double fixate did cause a few deaths because either people were out of range of heals and had the DoT on them or the positioning was messed up for P1 and bats were everywhere.

Bats were somewhat problematic on all attempts except for the kill. Obviously they need to be controlled and held in one place so that the raid can get off their AOE stuns and so that they cleave/AOE them down. We had some issues with bats getting away from the tanks. And the raid stacking wasn't great during that phase either because we had an early transition or two which meant that we were trying to kill bats while running from Thok, not a good combination.

DPS also felt extremely low on the first 2 attempts for some reason. Wipe 2 was 7:13 long while our kill was 5:59. That's a huge dps spread.

Siegecrafter Blackfuse

This is where the wheels really fell off the train. I'm not going to go through all of the wipes because there were 24 of them! But there are some HUGE issues that need to be addressed.

[attachment=2:3rugpiyp]Siegecrafter belt deaths.PNG[/attachment:3rugpiyp]

I'll start with the belt since I'm the most familiar with that.

Birdi you should go Survival for this fight. You probably don't even need to gem/reforge any differently than BM to be honest. But we can't have your pet freak out on the belt and not DPS. It's too much of a loss as BM and I don't have enough CDs to make up for it when the pet does decide to freak out.

I was playing too close to the beams on the belts. I can sit here and blame latency or the beam effect being larger than the graphic but the fact is that I shouldn't have been so close to the beams in the first place. No amount of defensive CDs can make up for trying to be a hero on the belt. It is by far the easiest role in this fight and there's no excuse for dying to the very predictable beam patterns.

[attachment=1:3rugpiyp]Siegecrafter deaths.PNG[/attachment:3rugpiyp]

I don't think that there is an easy to show all of the deaths on Siegecrafter the other night so here is the total deaths and the most deadly abilities.

The fact that the saw blade is the second highest killing blow ability is pathetic, absolutely pathetic. I died to the saw blades once on the main platform so I know how easy it is to get juggle combo'd between 2 of them but I've been on the main platform like 20 times for 30 seconds each time before I go to the belts. The rest of you guys have been on the main platform for over 260 wipes now. You should all have fucking PhDs in avoiding mechanics at this point. The saw blades are incredibly predictable (there's a timer and an announcement when he's casting it) and there's a few seconds in which players can see where he's throwing the blade so that they can move out of the way.

[attachment=0:3rugpiyp]Siegecrafter saw blades.PNG[/attachment:3rugpiyp]

Here's the damage taken from the saw blades for the night. The only person who didn't get hit with any saw blades was the guy who was on the belt full time.

That's 190 hits from saw blades. Divide that by 24 wipes and we're at just under 8 saw blade hits per attempt!! That's ridiculous when our attempts were averaging 3 minutes and we're solo healing.

Super heated was right behind saw blades in killing blows. And most of those killing blows came from ticks that were well beyond what anyone should have. I'm talking 5-6 stacks. That's simply not acceptable when we're solo healing. Sav doesn't have the GCDs to save people who want to hang out in fire or make out with saw blades.

The logs also show me that there are multiple people getting hit by Death From Above. I don't understand how ranged dps are being hit by this ability. No one should be in melee ranged with the shredder while it's up in the air except maybe the tank. Death From Above only had 2 killing blows but the damage taken from it was insane for an avoidable mechanic.

I'm not on the main platform so I'm not entirely sure how you guys are positioning yourselves but looking at the individual attempts it seems like every time we hit the 2 minute mark shit goes sideways. You can count on 1-2 people dying every single time we hit the magnet phase. Typically it's saw blade and then magnet damage that kills someone. Or Superheated and magenet damage or Death from above and magnet damage. You know the magnet is coming at the 2 minute mark every time so you should be prepared for it.

I am flabbergasted that we are still having these same problems after almost 300 attempts on this boss. We can't 9 man this fight. We need all 10 people to survive for 4-5 minutes so that the boss dies. I would say 2 heal it but the problem with that is 2 things: 1) When people die they tend to die so quick so that an additional healer wouldn't save them and 2) It just makes the fight longer giving people more time to stand in saw blades, fire, death from above, etc.


It's like people aren't learning anything after each attempt or they just think that other people are causing the wipes on these "
bosses. On a fight this late in the tier like Siegecrafter it's everyone's responsibility as to whether we win or lose. Everyone had a derp moment on Siegecrafter this week (myself included) but some people had dozens of derp moments on Siegecrafter or dozens throughout both nights.

Think of it like this, we wiped on bosses that most of us killed for the first time in 2013... We overcame the hell that is heroic siegecrafter only to walk into SoO last week and wipe on Immerseus. I don't know about the rest of you but that makes me feel like a bag of ass and that we didn't deserve our Garrosh kill.

I seriously urge everyone to look at their logs every raid and see what they could do better for the next raid. Right now, I don't think that many people are looking at the logs because I'm seeing the same mistakes from the same people each week and I'm sick of it. This post is absolutely meant to be harsh because I'm very pissed about last week's raid. It's embarrassing to have potential applicants look at our logs and see wipes on bosses like Immerseus, Juggernaut, Shamans, etc. And it's mind blowing to me that after almost 300 wipes we still don't seem to have Siegecrafter down to a science.

This has put us in a very shitty situation heading into raid this week. It's our last chance at the Cutting Edge achievement and we still have to get through Siegecrafter and Paragons. And to top of it all off we probably only have Monday night to do it. While myself and Cheeko are perfectly fine if you guys want to raid Sunday night without us it's going to be rough without our CDs, at least on Garrosh. I'm going to speak with the other officers and try to come up with a solid roster for Sunday night that should be able to at least get to Garrosh before Monday, if not kill him. But everyone needs to play a hell of a lot better than we did last week if we want Garrosh dead a 2nd time before 6.0.

Dalek's Bane

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